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Scotland 2005 Discussion On Beliefnet.com
kendraj 10/12/2005 2:06 PM
1 out of 7
Which denomination is closest to Celtic Christianity? United? Methodist? Catholic?
Celtic_Rev_John 10/13/2005 11:25 AM
2 out of 7
None of those you mentioned. The Celtic Church derived from what is not the Eastern Orthodox Church and shares much with those churches, such as having two alters in our churches. However, with the absorption of Byzantine culture the Orthodox Church changed more. The Roman Church only shares similar traits to the extent that under Charlemagne they borrowed heavily from the Gallican (the Celtic Church on continental Europe) and Celtic Churches. The Methodist and United Churches are post reformation churches. Wesley, who founded the Methodist Church, was a follower of Jacobis Armineus, who in turn was infuenced by the writings of St. Morgan, a Welsh saint. So there is a connection, albeit a weak one.
The Celtic Church is unique in that it has preserved the traditions of the early church of Jerusalem. We still honor the Sabbath beginning with sundown on Friday and we celebrate the Eucharist on the day of our Lord's resurrection, Sunday just as James' church in Jerusalem did. We celebrate Easter at 14 Nisan, which is the time recorded in all four Gospels. These are just a couple of examples of where we have preserved the first church's practices and where we are different from the mainstream churches you cited.Blessings,
+ John
Bishop, Province of St. BrendanThe Celtic Church in Scotland
Anesis 10/17/2005 11:32 AM
3 out of 7
In North America, then, where would you recommend a person attend in order to get the closest thing to Celtic Christianity?
Does Celtic Christianity believe in the deity of Jesus, the death and resurrection, the Trinity, salvation, the New Testament, etc?
What are the church services like? Are they quite ritualistic, do they have a time of worship, is there a sermon?
Are there any Celtic wedding traditions or blessings traditionally cited at weddings? How do weddings differ between Protestant and Celtic Christianity?
I know little about Celtic traditions, etc, but what I do know, I find very beautiful. I especially enjoy a Celtic twist on music...An
Celtic_Rev_John 10/17/2005 2:11 PM
4 out of 7
North America, then, where would you recommend a person attend in order to get the closest thing to Celtic Christianity?
You may be able to find a church with a "Celtic" flavor in North America, but the roots will no doubt be Angilcan, Catholic or Orthodox. We are a young mission here in the process of building churches.
Does Celtic Christianity believe in the deity of Jesus, the death and resurrection, the Trinity, salvation, the New Testament, etc?
Absolutely. If one doesn't believe in the Deity of Jesus and His resurrection then I'm not sure why they would bother to call themselves Christians. The Celtic Church is the most Trinitarian of all churches.
What are the church services like? Are they quite ritualistic, do they have a time of worship, is there a sermon?
By ritualistic, do you mean liturgical? Then yes we are liturgical, as were the very first churches. Celtic Christianity came to the Britannic Isles within a decade of the resurrection from James' church in Jersusalem. The Church in Jerusalem as well as the Church founded by Mark in North Africa had the earliest known liturgies. Worship in the Jewish temple was liturgical based on the passed in Leviticus, where God told Moses "you will worship on earth as worship is in heaven"; in other words liturgical. Isaiah, Daniel and John all saw worship around the heavenly throne and it was liturgical.
The early worship was patterned after Jewish temple worship with prayers and readings and a homily. The early church worshipped on Saturday, the Sabbath and then gathered on the first day of the week for Eucharist. The format for the Eucharist followed Jewish Berakoth bread and cup meals. The earliest surviving Eucharist prayers can be found in the Didache, written in the first century. These prayers are modelled after the Berakoth. We still honor the Sabbath at sundown on Friday with the Shabbat. Saturday is honored as the Sabbath and we gather for Holy Eucharist on Sunday, the first day of the week, to celebrate our Lord's resurrection, with a service that still follows the Didache prayers. By the way, it was the pagan emperor Constantine who changed worship to Sunday, the day which honored his pagan sun god. Jesus never said anything about changing the Sabbath, only to honor it. The Celtic Church has maintained quite a bit of Judiadic tradition.
Are there any Celtic wedding traditions or blessings traditionally cited at weddings? How do weddings differ between Protestant and Celtic Christianity?
Yes. It's hard to describe, but the wording and prayers have a very Celtic sense about them. As for peculiar traditions, we do a handfasting of the bride and groom, to show they are united as one. This is an ancient Celtic tradition, which actually has pagan roots. At the end of the service, we ask family and friends to circle them for support and they are asked to "circle them with love and support. It's a very nice ceremony actually.
I know little about Celtic traditions, etc, but what I do know, I find very beautiful. I especially enjoy a Celtic twist on music...An
I hope this helps. Please feel free to ask any questions.
+ John
Bishop, Province of Saint BrendanThe Celtic Church in Scotland
1 out of 7
Which denomination is closest to Celtic Christianity? United? Methodist? Catholic?
Celtic_Rev_John 10/13/2005 11:25 AM
2 out of 7
None of those you mentioned. The Celtic Church derived from what is not the Eastern Orthodox Church and shares much with those churches, such as having two alters in our churches. However, with the absorption of Byzantine culture the Orthodox Church changed more. The Roman Church only shares similar traits to the extent that under Charlemagne they borrowed heavily from the Gallican (the Celtic Church on continental Europe) and Celtic Churches. The Methodist and United Churches are post reformation churches. Wesley, who founded the Methodist Church, was a follower of Jacobis Armineus, who in turn was infuenced by the writings of St. Morgan, a Welsh saint. So there is a connection, albeit a weak one.
The Celtic Church is unique in that it has preserved the traditions of the early church of Jerusalem. We still honor the Sabbath beginning with sundown on Friday and we celebrate the Eucharist on the day of our Lord's resurrection, Sunday just as James' church in Jerusalem did. We celebrate Easter at 14 Nisan, which is the time recorded in all four Gospels. These are just a couple of examples of where we have preserved the first church's practices and where we are different from the mainstream churches you cited.Blessings,
+ John
Bishop, Province of St. BrendanThe Celtic Church in Scotland
Anesis 10/17/2005 11:32 AM
3 out of 7
In North America, then, where would you recommend a person attend in order to get the closest thing to Celtic Christianity?
Does Celtic Christianity believe in the deity of Jesus, the death and resurrection, the Trinity, salvation, the New Testament, etc?
What are the church services like? Are they quite ritualistic, do they have a time of worship, is there a sermon?
Are there any Celtic wedding traditions or blessings traditionally cited at weddings? How do weddings differ between Protestant and Celtic Christianity?
I know little about Celtic traditions, etc, but what I do know, I find very beautiful. I especially enjoy a Celtic twist on music...An
Celtic_Rev_John 10/17/2005 2:11 PM
4 out of 7
North America, then, where would you recommend a person attend in order to get the closest thing to Celtic Christianity?
You may be able to find a church with a "Celtic" flavor in North America, but the roots will no doubt be Angilcan, Catholic or Orthodox. We are a young mission here in the process of building churches.
Does Celtic Christianity believe in the deity of Jesus, the death and resurrection, the Trinity, salvation, the New Testament, etc?
Absolutely. If one doesn't believe in the Deity of Jesus and His resurrection then I'm not sure why they would bother to call themselves Christians. The Celtic Church is the most Trinitarian of all churches.
What are the church services like? Are they quite ritualistic, do they have a time of worship, is there a sermon?
By ritualistic, do you mean liturgical? Then yes we are liturgical, as were the very first churches. Celtic Christianity came to the Britannic Isles within a decade of the resurrection from James' church in Jersusalem. The Church in Jerusalem as well as the Church founded by Mark in North Africa had the earliest known liturgies. Worship in the Jewish temple was liturgical based on the passed in Leviticus, where God told Moses "you will worship on earth as worship is in heaven"; in other words liturgical. Isaiah, Daniel and John all saw worship around the heavenly throne and it was liturgical.
The early worship was patterned after Jewish temple worship with prayers and readings and a homily. The early church worshipped on Saturday, the Sabbath and then gathered on the first day of the week for Eucharist. The format for the Eucharist followed Jewish Berakoth bread and cup meals. The earliest surviving Eucharist prayers can be found in the Didache, written in the first century. These prayers are modelled after the Berakoth. We still honor the Sabbath at sundown on Friday with the Shabbat. Saturday is honored as the Sabbath and we gather for Holy Eucharist on Sunday, the first day of the week, to celebrate our Lord's resurrection, with a service that still follows the Didache prayers. By the way, it was the pagan emperor Constantine who changed worship to Sunday, the day which honored his pagan sun god. Jesus never said anything about changing the Sabbath, only to honor it. The Celtic Church has maintained quite a bit of Judiadic tradition.
Are there any Celtic wedding traditions or blessings traditionally cited at weddings? How do weddings differ between Protestant and Celtic Christianity?
Yes. It's hard to describe, but the wording and prayers have a very Celtic sense about them. As for peculiar traditions, we do a handfasting of the bride and groom, to show they are united as one. This is an ancient Celtic tradition, which actually has pagan roots. At the end of the service, we ask family and friends to circle them for support and they are asked to "circle them with love and support. It's a very nice ceremony actually.
I know little about Celtic traditions, etc, but what I do know, I find very beautiful. I especially enjoy a Celtic twist on music...An
I hope this helps. Please feel free to ask any questions.
+ John
Bishop, Province of Saint BrendanThe Celtic Church in Scotland
Rome A.D. 597
"It has come to my ears that certain men of perverse spirit have sown among you some things that are wrong and opposed to the holy faith, so as to forbid any work being done on the Sabbath day. What else can I call these but preachers of Antichrist, who, when he comes, will cause the Sabbath day as well as the Lord's day to be kept free from all work. For, because he pretends to die and rise again, he wishes the Lord's day to be had in reverence; and, because he compels the people to judaize that he may bring back the outward rite of the law, and subject the per-tidy of the Jews to himself, he wishes the Sabbath to be observed. For this which is said by the prophet, 'Ye shall bring in no burden through your gates on the Sabbath day', could be held to as long as it was lawful for the law to be observed according to the letter. But after that the grace of Almighty God, our Lord Jesus Christ has appeared, the commandments of the law which were spoken figuratively cannot be kept according to the letter. For, if any one says that this about the Sabbath is to be kept, he must needs say that carnal sacrifices are to be offered: he must say too that the commandment about the circumcision of the body is still to be retained. But let him hear the Apostle Paul saying in opposition to him, 'If ye be circumcised, Christ profiteth you nothing.’” Pope Gregory the Great [regn. A.D. 590-604], To the Roman Citizens, Epistle 13:1 (A.D. 597).
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